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 First Round Review

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Why So Serious?

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PostSubject: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 9:26 am

Well boys what did you think of the first round of the draft last night? Som enice stuff in The Box during the fast flying, pick changing first round last night. Great to see Ted, Lutzz, Ed et. al. in there last night. Sure was a lot happening to discuss. Hope you all can show up again tonight for rounds 2-3.

Gotta give credit to the Vikings who played the game about as perfectly as one can, moving back a pick, getting 3 extra picks to do it still getting their guy Kalil and then moving back into the first toget a guy that the Packers had to have had on their list in Harrison Smith.

Not sure why the Bears picked McLellin, the guy can play, but is he really a 4-3 End? He certainly is NOT an OLB in that scheme so I don't know. Maybe they believe he can put on another 25-30 to play end in their D, but I'm not sure.

The Lions didn't have to do a thing to get a guy that was both sliding farther than he should have and address a position of need with their selection of Reilly Reiff. Makes you wonder if the opinion of NFL Observers towards Iowa O-Linemen is changing. First Bulaga and now Reiff, makes you think.

Not sure what the Rams were thinking, well actually I am, they wanted more picsk so they made that happen, but passing on a true shut down corner in Claiborne and also not coming out with either Floyd or Blackmon has got to hurt no matter what spin they put on it. Of course they have a great opportunity to make that stuff go away tonight.

The Cowboys showed balls making the move up to get Claiborne.

I'm still flabbergasted over the Irvin pick b the Seahawks. As you know I love the kid, but picking him there was just well, WOW! I had him in the 3-4th round range and to see him go ther reminded me of an Al Davis move. Hope it works out for them and more for Irvin himself.

The Browns getting Weeden was a surprise and I;d love to know how Berman knew it was coming, he seems to have one of those up his sleve every year. What do they do with McCoy now? Trade him? Might the packers be willing to deal a 7th for him? That's all I'd do, but with the right coaching he can still be a player.

Anyway, enjoy and hope you all make it tonight for rounds 2 and 3.
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denvercheddarhead

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 11:05 am

Well, took 3 years of banging the drum for a Rd. 1 ROLB and I finally got one. Wish I was more excited. Though I'm happier with Perry than Upshaw.
Fuckin' Bears taking McClellin. Now I hope I was way wrong on the kid and he flat out sucks! Agree, Serious, not sure what the Bears are thinking. Jones was long gone as well. And then my glimmer of hope for Hightower went buh-bye.
Can't make it to the Chat Box tonite, but I'll be around tomorrow if anyone else is.
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Why So Serious?

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 11:20 am

I don't have a problem with the Perry Pick though I wuold haev preferred Upshaw. Didn't like some of the thigns I have read subsequent about hsi work ethic and what not. Funnny thing is half of the people say he works his but of and the otther half says he is lazy. Who do you believe? I trust Theodore and his team so Perry gets the benefit of the doubt from me.

Still think Shea is a good player, but I am not sure if he really fits in a 4-3 without transforming his body some.

I will be ion The Box tonight and tomorrow for sure.
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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 11:52 am

My theory is the Bears took MClellin because they knew he was TTs pick. And they're too stupid to make their own assessments. I just don't believe the kid has the strength to play DE. I guess he can get stronger, but strong guys are born that way as much as made.
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Why So Serious?

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 1:50 pm

HB, wouldn't surprise me with those silly Bears.

I thought Perry did well strengthwise? Didn't he get in the 30's in the bench at the combine?

I'm more concerned that he bulked up to over 270 preparing to play end in a 4-3 not OLB in a 3-4. He is going to have to drop that 20 lbs if not more to play OLB in the 3-4.

I am ready for more draft tonight!

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denvercheddarhead

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 2:38 pm

Serious, I'm thinking HB is talking about McClellin and not Perry re: strength to play DE.

I like Perry over Upshaw just based on speed. Upshaw is a damn good football player, but I'm just thinking Perry has a better shot to make it as a Packer OLB. At least he's saying all the right things about having to learn to play in the 2-point some now. We shall see....

Now hoping for D-line and D-back tonite.



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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 3:07 pm

You're right denver, I was referring to McClellin on the strength question.

Rich Gannon reported on Sirius NFL today that the Browns are looking to trade Colt McCoy. He named the Packers as a team showing interest. What do you guys think he's worth? He kind of sucked last year, but he really didn't have a lot of help. I believe I'd pick him to win a game or two over Harrell.
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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 3:16 pm

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/27/report-browns-talking-colt-mccoy-trade-with-packers/
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lutzz

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 3:23 pm

I am praying I am wrong about Perry, but the draft record of 1st round, straight line speed rushers is not good. Add in the fact that he went to a school which coddles it's players, who as a result have trouble playing with the toughness required in the pros, his character and work ethic concerns and his lineman type agility drills and I have a hard time seeing him as anything more than a situational pass rusher. If he can do that well I guess it's a good pick.

People talk about his coming from the same system as Matthews, forgeting that SC changed coaches. Matthews stood up in a 3/4, Perry had his hand down in a 4/3. The only guy with similar traits to Perry's who made it in the last few years that I can remember was Orakpo. Most end up like Gholston or Maybin or Larry English.

Once again I hope I will be eating crow over the next few years but I bet the percentages and the percentages don't look good.


Last edited by lutzz on April 27th 2012, 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lutzz

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 3:25 pm

Hieronymus Bosch wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/27/report-browns-talking-colt-mccoy-trade-with-packers/

I love the trade. As you may remember I didn't think McCoy was a starter in this league, but I think he is a perfect backup for a west coast team.
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lutzz

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 3:25 pm

Where's Jack?
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Why So Serious?

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 3:38 pm

Well let's set the bar this way gents, Assante Samuel, a multiple Pro Bowl performer was traded for a 7th round pick so if the Browns are askign for more than that I don't know they will get it out of TT QB or not. I'd be fine with a 6, but no more than that. I mean the guy is likely to be here 2 years and gone at best and as a back up so....
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denvercheddarhead

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 3:44 pm

I'm guessing Jack's waiting for the Pack to draft Markelle Martin tonite so he can make a triumphant entrance. Razz

I'm worried as well, lutzz. Hope I'm wrong, too.

Let's see, I had the Pack taking B.J. Coleman in the 6th. So would I take McCoy instead for that pick? Um, yep....
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Why So Serious?

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 3:54 pm

I am so with Jack on that pick too, have Markelle Martin going to the Pack in round 3,

Is it our nature(s) to worry no matter the pick? I think to some varyinjg degrees we all feel that every year. I surmise it is because we all care so much about the success of this team and that is what makes Packers fans so special!

Indeed denver, indeed.
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lutzz

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 4:05 pm

How about trading the 3rd rounder to Oak for Seymour? Seymour will be gone by the time Oak has built a contending team and Oak needs picks. We get a natural 3/4 end with big game experience for a couple of years.

That would be Ron Wolf play, not sure about TT.
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denvercheddarhead

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 4:53 pm

Seymour would certainly look good to me, but didn't he just restructure his contract with the Raiders? Not positive on that.

I'm warming up to Martin as a possible pick. Still like Taylor, though, and am really starting to like Hardin thanks to lutzz. Was under-the-radar since he missed last season, but looks to be an incredible athlete.
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TedTheSledge
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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 5:25 pm

By the time the packers put Perry through his first training camp, I expect he will be playing at less than 270 so he is in tweener territory. Brian at CheeseheadTV did a post on whether the Packers drafting of Perry, and FA moves for Muir and Hargrove, signals a shift to a more hybrid defense:

http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/green-bay-packers-perry-fits-hybrid-defense?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CheeseheadTv+%28Cheesehead+TV%29

I'm not expert enough to say if he's a good fit or not, bit if he's good enough to take playing time away from the Zombo,Walden or Wynn,Wilson combos it's a step in the right direction.

Looking at the start of the second round offensive and defensive lines may be the strongest positions remaining. I'm warming to the idea of a DB here in the second especially if the touted remaining DL's go early.
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lutzz

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 5:58 pm

Thanks Ted

I'm feeling better already.
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Jack Vainisi

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 6:41 pm

lutzz wrote:
Where's Jack?

Allnighter at work. But I did hear part of the draft on sirius ESPN.

Like you, I'm not a big fan of the pick. His combine numbers were great, but then, so were Neals. However, we will see how it plays out.
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Jack Vainisi

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 6:45 pm

denvercheddarhead wrote:
I'm guessing Jack's waiting for the Pack to draft Markelle Martin tonite so he can make a triumphant entrance. Razz

I'm worried as well, lutzz. Hope I'm wrong, too.

Let's see, I had the Pack taking B.J. Coleman in the 6th. So would I take McCoy instead for that pick? Um, yep....

McGinn ripped Markelle on his draft preview. Hey - after watching Shields and Williams tackle last year, anyone who hits is ok with me in the secondary.

PS - I like the triumphant entrance crack - pretty cool.


Last edited by Jack Vainisi on April 27th 2012, 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lutzz

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 27th 2012, 6:47 pm

McGinn in the podcast is very suspicious of the pick.
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f'emBucky

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 29th 2012, 9:38 pm

Well after a drunken weekend in Madison doing Crazylegs and catching small portions of the draft here and there, I can safely say this. Defense?????? All Defense?!?!?!?!?!?!? WTF???

I am not saying we did not need it after last season but I am still worried about the QB depth now that Flynn is gone. I am not a fan of TT's overly casual look at RB's. And I am not too sure about the O line. But we did hit the draft hard on all defensive players.

I would add that I was pleasantly surprised at TT's aggression this time around, trading away nearly every late round pick.

OK, they did pick up some offensive guys but not really what I was hoping for. I think this may go down as a fairly mediocre draft for TT, mostly because of the talent and the picks he had.

Finally, my prediction, post draft portion: 12-4 with losses to the Texans, at Detroit, Giants, and one more toss up game (San Fran?). I expect them to only see any competition in the division from Detroit. Yeah, a loss to the Texans, I said it, and I hope I am wrong.
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Ed Hochuli #85

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 29th 2012, 10:36 pm

I had no complaints of TT primarily drafting defense getting 2 DL's, 2 OLB's, a CB, and a S. In 2009 and 2010 the Packers D ranked in the top 5. I'm still a firm believer in Capers turning around this D now that the D cupboard has been restocked (in spite of an ex-Old AA personality who thought Capers should be fired white flag ) . Increased competition should be enough incentive for the defense to kick it up a notch.

f'em, agreed on TT making 3 trade ups to get quality over quantity. There are plenty of FA QB's looking for jobs so a veteran backup is out there if TT goes that way. The only surprise was TT not going after Polk as an additional RB through the draft or UDFA.

Was their a red flag on Polk I was unaware of? (anyone can chime in on this one)

You still need a kickass defense to win the Super Bowl so I'm glad that TT loaded up on that side of the ball so ARod doesn't have to put 40 points on the board every week. I've said in previous posts that TT should load up on D (like most of us on this Forum) AND trade up for quality. He did what we hoped for, so I am looking forward to this season.

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 30th 2012, 6:25 am

Polk signed with the Eagles. He has had shoulder problems (dislocations) and surgery. His surgeon says that other than some scarring, he should be fine. Having had both of my shoulders dislocated several times, I'm leery of his long term health. There was also a rumor that he had a degenerative hip problem. This he denies. The kid was a work horse in college, no doubt. If healthy, he could be a good sub for McCoy.

After looking back on the draft I too liked TTs aggressiveness. The first 3 picks could all be really good players, or two out of three could be busts. Hayward seems like the safest pick, but if Perry and Worthy realize their potential, this will have been a great draft no matter how well the other picks turn out. I really like Manning.
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Jack Vainisi

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 30th 2012, 11:03 am

Ted Thompson isn’t a media friendly guy. He’s not one to speak his mind on his true thoughts to the press – ever. So you have to follow his personal moves to really know what he thinks. Draft day is probably the best way to get a feel for what he really thinks on where is club is at and where he wants to go.

The guy started with 12 picks. Four of those were mandatory selections leaving him eight to wheel and deal with. The eight picks turned into four, which means he feels the club has depth in its younger players and bringing an excess of players to camp would be a waste of time.

Obviously he didn’t have a high opinion of the Packer defense. Seven of the eight picks were on the defensive side of the ball and three were made in the top two rounds. Thompson traded up twice –something he’s only done when he feels the draftee fills a team need.

He definitely took some risks this year.

Like Mike Neal, Perry comes with great combine numbers, but questions about his ability to play hard on every down. Physically, he’s got the tools to help the club, but it might take time for him to grow up and learn the OLB position. Don’t be surprised if he’s not deemed ready on week 1. Realistically that’s ok. Clay Matthews didn’t start immediately either and it was midseason before he really started to come on.

Jerel Worthy fell out of the first round due to an inconsitant motor and maturity issues. I expect the guy to be a part of the rotation immediately, but like BJ Raji it might be a year or so before he really catches on to the pro game.

With drafting Casey Hayward, hopefully Sam Shields gets the idea that it’s ok to tackle. Actually, the Packers look really deep at CB this year. Woodson might be moving to safety, but that still leaves Williams, Shields, Hayward, House and Bush in the mix. It’s going to be a very competitive camp this year for the CB’s.
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Why So Serious?

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 30th 2012, 12:22 pm

Not sure if the begining of your post was a criticism or just stating the facts Jack, but personally I love Ted's approach. He owes the media and the fans nothing in terms of his or the organizations strategy or approach to the draft. I love that about him.

Lots of messages sent to lots of players and lots of positions on this team, specifically get better or you will be looking for work. I love that and it is needed to return the tea to the hungry ass team you saw in 2010 who were not going to be denied no matter what.

Guys who particularly need to step up or step off are Mike Neal, CJ Wilson, Erik Walden, Brad Jones, Sam Shields and Jarius Wynn. I look forward to seeing their responses on the field.
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Jack Vainisi

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 30th 2012, 1:38 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:
Not sure if the begining of your post was a criticism or just stating the facts Jack, but personally I love Ted's approach. He owes the media and the fans nothing in terms of his or the organizations strategy or approach to the draft. I love that about him.

Lots of messages sent to lots of players and lots of positions on this team, specifically get better or you will be looking for work. I love that and it is needed to return the tea to the hungry ass team you saw in 2010 who were not going to be denied no matter what.

Guys who particularly need to step up or step off are Mike Neal, CJ Wilson, Erik Walden, Brad Jones, Sam Shields and Jarius Wynn. I look forward to seeing their responses on the field.

Not a criticism, just stating the facts. Ted's a stone faced poker player who never, ever shows his hole cards. You have to watch how he bets to pick up information. Draft day and cut days are the two biggest days to find out what he really thinks.
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Why So Serious?

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 30th 2012, 2:15 pm

That's what I thought you were saying. So my questions to you are, Do you like his approach? Respect it? Appreciate it?
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Ed Hochuli #85

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 30th 2012, 3:14 pm

WSS,

I definitely liked what TT did in this year's draft. I think he realizes that this team has a solid nucleus to make several runs at the Super Bowl this decade, so it's time to find key players to round out the lineup. His initial 5 years as GM, he would trade down to get depth and this year he's trading up to get "the key player". I think further evidence that TT is looking for the Super Bowl prize is getting FA's Saturday, Hargrove, and Muir.

I also think your comment of creating competition is spot on. After winning in 2010, the players seemed a little more complacent and lacked the fire they had the year before. With TT loading up on defensive players through the draft and FA is his way of lighting a fire under the players to shape up or ship out. Capers also has plenty of material to work with the coming season so it should a better if not good unit this fall.

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Why So Serious?

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 30th 2012, 4:12 pm

It was interesting to hear Dom during his post pick discussions to reference creating schemes to take advantage of the players rather than discussing how players fit into the scheme. Sound slike Dom is feeling some pressure too and that is a good thing as well. Coaches can get complacent too. Not saying he did, but whatever they were trying last year was not working so he sees this as a chance to do a better job. Good for him.
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Jack Vainisi

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 30th 2012, 5:35 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:
That's what I thought you were saying. So my questions to you are, Do you like his approach? Respect it? Appreciate it?

Usually none of the above on draft day. I start studying prospects enough to say ‘why the hell didn’t Thompson draft the guys I wanted. What the hell is wrong with the guy?’

But realistically, look at the results. The GBP is 36-10 over the last 2 ½ years with a title. That’s pretty impressive stuff for a GM to do, especially in the salary cap era. While I may not always like his approach, you have to respect it and appreciate it.
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Jack Vainisi

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 30th 2012, 5:36 pm

It's only fun to slam Thompson when Packerblood is reading.
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Jack Vainisi

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 30th 2012, 6:05 pm

Lutz:

Looks like Thompson signed Dale Moss as an undrafted FA. I really thought the guy would get drafted after his pro day. It's going to be interesting to see how the guy does in camp.
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lutzz

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 30th 2012, 7:22 pm

Jack Vainisi wrote:
Lutz:

Looks like Thompson signed Dale Moss as an undrafted FA. I really thought the guy would get drafted after his pro day. It's going to be interesting to see how the guy does in camp.

I saw that. I like his chances against the 2 practice squad guys.
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Why So Serious?

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PostSubject: Re: First Round Review   April 30th 2012, 7:27 pm

As I recall from way back in the day thei did this once with one Randy Wittmann too right?
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