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 Article Rodgers raved about on twitter

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PostSubject: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 16th 2012, 6:08 pm

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/bryant-120215/desean-jackson-philadelphia-eagles-franchise-player-evidence-nfl-player-power-limits

WSS, this brings me back to our discussions from last year and your recommendation of Curt Flood's book, " A Well Paid Slave. " Jackson is not a good poster boy for the NFL players though, but not a bad article. I hope Rodgers isn't becoming a militant.
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Jack Vainisi

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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 17th 2012, 12:31 pm

It’s a good article that mentions a lot of the things we touched on last year during the lockout. I still don’t know why the NFL does not guarantee contracts - or force teams to pay a stiff penalty for breaking them.

As consumers, we can default on our mortgages or can payments, but our credit rating is going to go to shit and our interest rates are going to go through the roof on any future attempts to borrow money.

Teams should be allowed to terminate player contracts, but they should pay a stiffer penalty, such as being forced to carry ¼ or 1/3 of the contract against the salary cap until it terminates.

That would encourage teams to be more fiscally responsible when signing these deals. Right now, I see contracts as a joke.

I’ve read where Wells wants a four year deal. He’s probably going to get that deal with a team – Packers or someone else, but what are the odds of the 35 year old Wells finishing out the deal? I’d say the odds are less then 30%.

Look at Donald Driver’s deal:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/donald-driver/

In no way did his salary reflect his value to the 2011 GBP. In reality, he won the NFL lottery by staying with the team. It’s an unrealistic contract that the Packers never should have offered him.

That sounds harsh, but with the Salary cap, teams have to correlate performance with dollars spent. It’s very similar to manufacturing in the United States these days – a brutal environment:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/01/making-it-in-america/8844/



Drivers 2012 numbers are grossly inflated and he will probably be cut. The only penality the team will face is a years penality on his bonus money and whatever portion of his salary was guaranteed in the contract. But it’s a great Carrot for a team to wave in front of a aging player in order to get them to resign until the team feels the need to eliminate them.

Take a look at AJ Hawks numbers:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/a.j.-hawk/

If Thompson knew he’d be on the hook counting ¼ of Hawks salary against his Salary Cap expenditures for the life of the contract, do you think he’d have signed that contract? He’d be out of his mind paying that amount of dead money for a middle linebacker – a position which is not highly valued fisically in the NFL.

Hawk will probably be cut in two years. The Packers will take a cap hit in the year that they cut him and move on. But the deal was unrealistic for both the Player and the team. Contracts in the NFL are fantasy Island type of stuff.

If AR questions this type of system, Kudos to him. He's a smart guy.

In other news, AR has stated (through the internet gossip, which is pretty unreliable) that he wants Driver back in 2012. That could be interesting to see how it plays out.
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 17th 2012, 1:25 pm

Wells is an interesting case. Centers seem to play at a fairly consistent level into their 30s. Wells ain't bad, but I think he's replaceable. I'm not sure he's back. Ted just might let him see what's out there, and if he can get him back at a team friendly price, sign him. I'd rather see Ted go after Chris Myers, but that will never happen.

I'm thinking we're going to see a very frugal TT operate this year. He has some really key contracts coming up. CMIII, Rodgers, Jennings, and Raji. I Got to believe he's already trying to figure out how to get those deals done sooner rather than later.
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Ed Hochuli #85

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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 17th 2012, 5:54 pm

Hieronymus Bosch wrote:
Wells is an interesting case. Centers seem to play at a fairly consistent level into their 30s. Wells ain't bad, but I think he's replaceable. I'm not sure he's back. Ted just might let him see what's out there, and if he can get him back at a team friendly price, sign him. I'd rather see Ted go after Chris Myers, but that will never happen.

I'm thinking we're going to see a very frugal TT operate this year. He has some really key contracts coming up. CMIII, Rodgers, Jennings, and Raji. I Got to believe he's already trying to figure out how to get those deals done sooner rather than later.


HB, good point on looking at the futures. The average fan looks at the available cap space for the upcoming season; whereas the GM is looking at the overall picture of the team's cap 3-4 years down the road based on the core of the team he wishes to keep.

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denvercheddarhead

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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 17th 2012, 6:19 pm

If Wells isn't re-signed I will be driving the Peter Konz bandwagon straight to 1265. I would love to see that kid in a Packer uniform. But I'm still hoping Wells is signed so I can keep only looking at D players I want the Pack to pick in every round of the draft. That's right...an entire draft of only defensive players. Wonder what the odds are of that happening??
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Ed Hochuli #85

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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 17th 2012, 10:30 pm

denvercheddarhead wrote:
If Wells isn't re-signed I will be driving the Peter Konz bandwagon straight to 1265. I would love to see that kid in a Packer uniform. But I'm still hoping Wells is signed so I can keep only looking at D players I want the Pack to pick in every round of the draft. That's right...an entire draft of only defensive players. Wonder what the odds are of that happening??


I don't get as deep into the draft as you and a few others do on this Forum but I've read that Konz is supposedly the best o-lineman out of Bucky since Joe Thomas. If Wells left, I would not have a problem with that if he's that good. The guy is listed at 6'5", 315 so that would be one hell of a big boy up the middle. I don't see TT straying too far from defense but if Wells leaves and Konz is available at #28, I would not be upset with that pick at all.

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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 18th 2012, 8:56 am

Konz is a guy who I like a lot. If, and I know it's a big if, they could pick up an OLB type as a FA, I could see TT selecting Konz.
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denvercheddarhead

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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 18th 2012, 2:09 pm

I wouldn't put Konz in quite Thomas' class, Ed, but he's not far off IMO. It was almost shocking watching a kid that big playing Center and moving as well as he did. Anyway, not going to get my hopes up as I think he'll be long gone by pick #28 unless he drops some because of the dislocated ankle from last season not being 100%.

So that leaves the Pack's picks as-
2 OLB's
2 DE's
2 CB's
1 NT
1 S
1 ILB
Razz
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Why So Serious?

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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 20th 2012, 10:13 am

Good stuff gents, very good stuff. No one sentence proclaimations here. Well played.

We did have some very interesting discussions about the NFL contracting system during the lockout and it appears, at least thus far post lockout that it is more of the same. Unfortunately for the players and in smaller measure to the organizations who have to shell out some of these ridiculous contracts in order to keep pacce with other teams willing to dole out big signing and roter bonuses to marginally circumvent the salary cap.

While there is true free agency in the NFL, it, like just about everything is slanted in the ownsers direction. Player movement, while ostebsibly free (after certain time served restrictions), the facts are that teams are able to force players to stay through the franchise tag system.

IMHO, the most egregious rules are the ones regarding contract guarantees. These guys play the game that has the shortest average career and provides them with no guaranteed compensation should they be injured, they can be cut at a moments notice and the team absorbs the hit for that season and the next at most depending upon when the cut is made. What this has resulted in is ridiculously large signing bonuses that continue to spiral upward at an outrageous pace.

Thinj about Reggie White, one of, if not THE greatest defensive player ever, the total value of his deal was 17 Million, TOTAL, his signing bonus was wht? 3 Million? I understand with the economics of the game things grow upward of course, but the total value of Reggie's deal was roughly one third of AJ Hawks and his signing bonus was what, 1/4th? As much as I like Aj this is outrageous.

The Article does go a long way towards poinging out that the plaeyrs haev no one to blame but themselves for the way their contracts are structured though so I can't feel to badly for them.

Speaking "A Well Paid Slave", how did you like the book?
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 20th 2012, 10:18 am

C's vs LT's? Really?

Come on fellas, I love Konz, he is Bucky through and through, but even if he is the best C prospect since Dwight Stephenson, he is not anywhere near as important to a team as a LT is. An average LT is more important than a great center. No I am not saying not to draft Konz if her were there at 28, heck I would do it too, depending on who else was there at the time of course.

This team has bigger needs on the defense than they do on offense. Signing Wells to the 4 yar deal he allegedly wants is a no brainer given the discussion in this very thread regarding NFL contracts. Sign him and then if he falters you know the rest.
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denvercheddarhead

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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 21st 2012, 11:57 am

"C's vs LT's? Really?"
Serious, not sure where you are seeing that we were saying in any way that a Center is as important as a LT, just that Konz is probably the best O-Line prospect to come out of UW since Thomas. Thomas was a home grown freak athlete that plays LT; Konz the same who plays Center.
That is all.
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 21st 2012, 12:51 pm

probably in an alcoholic stupor. Or mystified at work. Who knows. Joe T is awesome and I sure wish he were in green and gold. Not that I wouldn't want to see PK66 in it too.
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Jack Vainisi

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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 21st 2012, 1:53 pm

I think it was the 2009 season that the Packers tried to replace Wells with a bigger Center in Spitz. I’m not sure who won the battle in camp, but I got the feeling the team wanted to move on with the bigger player in Spitz.

In reality, I don’t blame them. At the time it was thought that Spitz had probably potential as a center and he had the temperament and size the team wanted – definitely an up and coming player.

Spitz hurt his back and Wells stock has done nothing but go up since that season. It’s a good example on how fast a players evaluation can change.

Now Wells is coming off a probowl year and could be considered the Packers best linemen for the 2011 season. Surprisingly, he’s still playing under his rookie contract. This should be his last chance for a big payout and it appears he’s going to try to make the most of it.

The question is; is laying out a considerable chunk of cash for a 31 year old center within Thompson’s comfort zone? Historically, he been reluctant to make long term commitments in these situations. But Wells is a vital cog on a team that has to be considered a title contender for the next 4 or 5 years.
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 21st 2012, 1:56 pm

Got to sign him, but if he really wants 5 years then I don't know how you can objectively justify that. 4 I would be okay with, but that 5th year is really something to be wary of.

Spitz won the battle, then got hurt so Wells won the war.
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 21st 2012, 3:29 pm

WSS, I liked the book. I have to wonder if todays athletes really know what an ordeal Flood went through. He got absolutely nothing out of the deal. He was definitely a flawed individual, but I have to give him credit, he held his ground for a long time. The portrait side story was really strange. I doubt if he could get away with that scam today.
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 21st 2012, 3:50 pm

Ted Thompson won't over pay Scott Wells and I doubt he'd put the Franchise tag on him. There are some good centers available in the 2012 draft and Ted is good at finding the hidden gems.
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 21st 2012, 4:08 pm

HB I think that like anyplace else I suppose some players get it and others have no goddamned clue what those that came before them had to go through so that they can earn the outrageous sums they do today.

I remember several years back when Bud Selig introduced the Jackie Robinson celebrations and the wearing of "42" some players had no idea who Jackie was or what he had to endure. Curt Flood belongs in the HOF for the impact he had on the game irrespective of the fact that he was one hell of a player. Marvin Miller and he ought to go in together TODAY, right now, immediately.

Hard to believe he ran that scam and essentially got away with it. I sure hope they do end up making the movie that has been talked about for years, it is one heck of a story.
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 23rd 2012, 1:18 pm

Hieronymus Bosch wrote:
Konz is a guy who I like a lot. If, and I know it's a big if, they could pick up an OLB type as a FA, I could see TT selecting Konz.


http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/packers_may_be_looking_for_a_man_in_the_middle/10055509
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 23rd 2012, 1:21 pm

If they do not franchise Wells he may very well be somone to look at, bt I believe he will be off the board by the time the Packers pick at 28.
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 23rd 2012, 2:27 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:
If they do not franchise Wells he may very well be somone to look at, bt I believe he will be off the board by the time the Packers pick at 28.


Usually centers don't go this high in the draft and I think he'll be available at 28. The Packers have more pressing needs on defense and that's why they won't draft Konz.
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 23rd 2012, 2:57 pm

In the past 3 drafts ther have been 4 centers selected 28th or higher in the first round, The Pouncey Brothers, Alex Mack and Eric Wood a sure sign that times they are a changing. As an army marches on its stomach an offense marches on its line, everyone knows that and teams are jus tmaking this a larger priority than in the past. Adapt or perish.

While I agree they have larger needs on the defensive side of the ball, that is certain, but if they do not re-sign Wells then they may be forced to address that position early since there really are no better options on hand at this time. As much as I like EDS, he is not ready to be the full time C for this team and is much beter suited for a back up role.
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lutzz

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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 23rd 2012, 3:45 pm

Jack Vainisi wrote:
I think it was the 2009 season that the Packers tried to replace Wells with a bigger Center in Spitz. I’m not sure who won the battle in camp, but I got the feeling the team wanted to move on with the bigger player in Spitz.

In reality, I don’t blame them. At the time it was thought that Spitz had probably potential as a center and he had the temperament and size the team wanted – definitely an up and coming player.

Spitz hurt his back and Wells stock has done nothing but go up since that season. It’s a good example on how fast a players evaluation can change.

Now Wells is coming off a probowl year and could be considered the Packers best linemen for the 2011 season. Surprisingly, he’s still playing under his rookie contract. This should be his last chance for a big payout and it appears he’s going to try to make the most of it.

The question is; is laying out a considerable chunk of cash for a 31 year old center within Thompson’s comfort zone? Historically, he been reluctant to make long term commitments in these situations. But Wells is a vital cog on a team that has to be considered a title contender for the next 4 or 5 years.

Wells is on his second contract. TT, who supposedly only signs his own guys, reupped with him in 2006 I think.
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Jack Vainisi

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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 23rd 2012, 8:51 pm

lutzz wrote:
Jack Vainisi wrote:
I think it was the 2009 season that the Packers tried to replace Wells with a bigger Center in Spitz. I’m not sure who won the battle in camp, but I got the feeling the team wanted to move on with the bigger player in Spitz.

In reality, I don’t blame them. At the time it was thought that Spitz had probably potential as a center and he had the temperament and size the team wanted – definitely an up and coming player.

Spitz hurt his back and Wells stock has done nothing but go up since that season. It’s a good example on how fast a players evaluation can change.

Now Wells is coming off a probowl year and could be considered the Packers best linemen for the 2011 season. Surprisingly, he’s still playing under his rookie contract. This should be his last chance for a big payout and it appears he’s going to try to make the most of it.

The question is; is laying out a considerable chunk of cash for a 31 year old center within Thompson’s comfort zone? Historically, he been reluctant to make long term commitments in these situations. But Wells is a vital cog on a team that has to be considered a title contender for the next 4 or 5 years.

Wells is on his second contract. TT, who supposedly only signs his own guys, reupped with him in 2006 I think.

Does anyone have a link to contracts? Because if that's true, the one I'm currently is incorrect.
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Jack Vainisi

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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 23rd 2012, 8:55 pm

I think your right. If memory serves me correctly, Clifton was the last player who played prior to 2005 that Thompson reupped.
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 24th 2012, 12:00 pm

Jack, don't know what you are using, but I've used Rotoworld quite a bit in the past and Spotrac as well. Both already have Finley's contract updated so they seem pretty with it-

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/

And, yep, Wells was extended in 2006 for 5 years. Cliffy was extended in 2004 (prior to TT) and again in '10.
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PostSubject: Re: Article Rodgers raved about on twitter   February 24th 2012, 12:38 pm

Thanks for the fabulous link.
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